Jonathan's Stand

Let's discuss about the first three chapters of the manga...

What kind of stand do you think Jonathan would've had?

Similar to "The World"
95
58%
Similar to "Star Platinum"
11
7%
Similar to "Hermit Purple"
42
26%
Similar to "Crazy Diamond"
4
2%
Similar to "Gold Experience"
11
7%
 
Total votes: 163
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Giorno666
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Giorno666 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:24 am

Joestar link
I lack the examples and I have to do some research but I'm almost sure some stands were created based on someone's abilities and weakness

Edit:some stuff I found
the stone mask gives stand like abilities by piercing the brain at some points

stands are made of hammon
hammon needs breath and comes from the bloodstream
but also only people who felt pressure from harsh situations can use it
only a small part of the humanity can use it


I can understand Joestar link but stone mask never gave stand anyone - Dio had a mask and did not have a Stand until have been pierced with arrow , and Stand abilities are not hamon most probably , Joseph used both Hermit Purple and hamon on it , how can you use hamon on hamon then ? And stands does not require you to breath .

I mean genetics has some things to do with it
by "influenced" I do not mean in the way the arrow does but in the way the user personality does


You mean that by getting Jonathan ' s body Dio ' s personality changed ?

a stand that shoots and that can rotate the fingernails before shooting instead of a fighting humanoid
totally made for him with the steel ball in mind


Gyro and Diego had their legs all right yet all they got where turbo vision and dinosaurs making . Johnny ' s Tusk evolved with every lesson from Gyro , so in my opinion it makes sense . His final version was created by infinite rotation , and it was even humanoid , though still shot as fingernail .

with everything that changed and Pucci supposedly being the creator of this universe, it's hard to take it into account (I didn't read part 6 I might be messing up stuff with pucci here)
looks like the original universe with malfuction
looks like the dimensional stuff Vallentine does can only affect neighbor dimensions wich have the same "malfuctions" with only the base world having broJesus (I will never forget Jhonny and Jesus bro talk)


Pucci did not create this world , he only accelerated time to point where our planet synchronizes with one exactly the same one somewhere on the other end of universe making it possible for humans to know their whole lifes and futures ( or something like thattt ) but Emporio kills him so the world is incomplete so it ends up in new world similar to the old one , where people who died where replaced ( which might mean that for example Johnathan was replaced by Johnny and Dio with Diego ) which in my opinion means that the whole past was changed ( people from the past are dead ) and as well is the Future .
I would not agree with Valentine thing though I thought the same way for longer time - but if they have the same malfunction then how one Diego can have The World ? And basing on that what I said the old world is also the same world with malfunctions . Though now that I think about it if Johnny is not Johnathan them maybe Diego killed Johanthan alike person ( killed Irene instead of Jolyne killing this way original Jolyne ) and used his body to have The World ?
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Pacote » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:19 pm

I can understand Joestar link but stone mask never gave stand anyone - Dio had a mask and did not have a Stand until have been pierced with arrow , and Stand abilities are not hamon most probably , Joseph used both Hermit Purple and hamon on it , how can you use hamon on hamon then ? And stands does not require you to breath .


that they do not give stand you are right and i didn't say the abilities are hammon based (tho I think Will Zeppeli said the stone masks abilities used ripples and thats why the sun ripples kill them)

but it's one of the things on the jojo universe who gives "stand like" abilities (I'm sure someone on this forum said it was stated by araki)
I might be writing it in the wrong way
english isn't my native language

yeah stands do not require you to breath but hammon requires and stand are the ghost ripple
I need help here cause I know it was said the exact connection between them but I cannot find it (by searching in the forums posts it was said they are guardians created by strong ripple users at the final stage of their training and the arrow awakes it without the person being a ripple user)

You mean that by getting Jonathan ' s body Dio ' s personality changed ?


not this way either lol
I think the stand is created to maximize the user abilities or even weakness taking into account personality and physical condition (and I believe this is where jonathan's influence came from)


Gyro and Diego had their legs all right yet all they got where turbo vision and dinosaurs making . Johnny ' s Tusk evolved with every lesson from Gyro , so in my opinion it makes sense . His final version was created by infinite rotation , and it was even humanoid , though still shot as fingernail .


yeah
as i said earlier in this same post
I think the stand is created to maximize the user abilities or even weakness (or minimize one's weakness)
Tusk was perfect for him. he doesn't need to use his leg to fight. a stand like star platinum could be pretty bad for him because of the lack of mobility (the stand gets weaker the more far it is from the user right?)
it can transport him and it's too perfect for his spin lessons lol
maybe the same can be told about turbo but I don't remember really well


Pucci did not create this world , he only accelerated time to point where our planet synchronizes with one exactly the same one somewhere on the other end of universe making it possible for humans to know their whole lifes and futures ( or something like thattt ) but Emporio kills him so the world is incomplete so it ends up in new world similar to the old one , where people who died where replaced ( which might mean that for example Johnathan was replaced by Johnny and Dio with Diego ) which in my opinion means that the whole past was changed ( people from the past are dead ) and as well is the Future .
I would not agree with Valentine thing though I thought the same way for longer time - but if they have the same malfunction then how one Diego can have The World ? And basing on that what I said the old world is also the same world with malfunctions . Though now that I think about it if Johnny is not Johnathan them maybe Diego killed Johanthan alike person ( killed Irene instead of Jolyne killing this way original Jolyne ) and used his body to have The World ?


thanks for the info. i need to read it someday
but I remember reading something about Dio becoming a god and everybody respecting him in this world
am I messing stuff in my mind?
anyway the replacement should be enough
how does the replacement work?
it can fuse jonathan's body and dio's soul while replacing etc
maybe he awakened dinosaurs instead of the world because he was infected while in a neighbor dimension where there is no corpse he wasn't (i think valentine stated there is only one timeline with the corpse) and coming to the basic world made he receive it's power
or there is something like a mask in diego-theworld dimension and he has a joestar body like you said
isn't it weird everybody but the pillar men was replaced?
maybe Part8 will help us out (those wall eyes makes me remembers of the pillar men home I don't know why)
your theory and the theory the world uses all the joestar abilities
would be nice if they were to become true
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Giorno666
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Giorno666 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:14 pm

but I remember reading something about Dio becoming a god and everybody respecting him in this world
am I messing stuff in my mind?


I think that it is about Pucci thinking of Dio as a god , and I think that I remember that it was Dio ' s idea to make that perfect world that they made .

anyway the replacement should be enough
how does the replacement work?
it can fuse jonathan's body and dio's soul while replacing etc
maybe he awakened dinosaurs instead of the world because he was infected while in a neighbor dimension where there is no corpse he wasn't (i think valentine stated there is only one timeline with the corpse) and coming to the basic world made he receive it's power
or there is something like a mask in diego-theworld dimension and he has a joestar body like you said


I know ! Maybe bro - Jesus is Johnathan the way that Irene was for Jolyne ? ? So if Diego appered here and got the corpse he also got The World ? I always thought that Johnathan was too ,, holy '' . The worst thing he did was asking Erena to drink wine : P

isn't it weird everybody but the pillar men was replaced?
maybe Part8 will help us out (those wall eyes makes me remembers of the pillar men home I don't know why)
your theory and the theory the world uses all the joestar abilities
would be nice if they were to become true


That is totally same thing I thought about Wall Eyes . So I agree .
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby OtherGalaxy » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:58 am

I view the Hermit Purple-ish Stand as his and The World as Dio's. My reasoning being I don't think something Spiritual like a Stand would be based off of the body but rather the mind. Thus Dio's main Stand is The World while due to Johnathan's body he could use a "broken" version of Johnathan's Stand.
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby jojonounderworld » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:29 am

But The World got more powerful as Dio got more Joestar blood and connected with Jonathan's body more. Doesn't that mean that the body had some sort of connection with the stand?
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby OtherGalaxy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Defeated by logic.

I'd forgotten the Time Stop nearly doubled after he drank Joseph, hmmmm....

Although I do remember something stating 5 Seconds was all a normal human body could stand, maybe it had something to do with that?
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Giorno666 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:54 pm

But The World got more powerful as Dio got more Joestar blood and connected with Jonathan's body more. Doesn't that mean that the body had some sort of connection with the stand?


Maybe its just Dio ' s body got better since he used Joestar ' s and thanks to stronger body his spirit got better ? And was it actually stated that The World got better ? Because I belive that Brando alone become stronger or mostly treatened his wounds .
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Draconated » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:13 am

OtherGalaxy wrote:Defeated by logic.

I'd forgotten the Time Stop nearly doubled after he drank Joseph, hmmmm....

Although I do remember something stating 5 Seconds was all a normal human body could stand, maybe it had something to do with that?

I think the five seconds thing was in regards to Jotaro, it was saying that a normal body like his limits at 5 seconds. Dio on the other hand kept improving, and it was hinted that Dio's final goal was to stop time completely forever or something, if I remember right.

Basically, 5 second thing was just so Jotaro wouldn't get even more OP.
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Dio_the_Dino » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:15 am

I'm late, but I think developments as of late reveal the truth.

Stands have always been a creation of the psyche, not the body. The ability itself is genetic, it seems, but the quality is entirely up to the individual's mind. Dio even had the World in SBR.
JacobForThePhail wrote:I mean, even the duwang guy was pretty head on with the plot (Even if his english was a bit.. sketchy at times XD)
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Crazy Green » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:32 am

^That's why i believe Jonathan's Stand was something like Hermit Purple, the only reason Dio needed Joestar's blood was to improve Jonathan's body so it could increase his body endurance to The World
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby OtherGalaxy » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:08 pm

Dio_the_Dino wrote:I'm late, but I think developments as of late reveal the truth.

Stands have always been a creation of the psyche, not the body. The ability itself is genetic, it seems, but the quality is entirely up to the individual's mind. Dio even had the World in SBR.



Ah hes this. The pyschological aspect makes sense which is why I think Dio has The World and the viny thing is Jonathan's Stand. SBR Diego2 having it also is a good point.
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Creissonino » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:24 pm

Dio_the_Dino wrote:I'm late, but I think developments as of late reveal the truth.

Stands have always been a creation of the psyche, not the body. The ability itself is genetic, it seems, but the quality is entirely up to the individual's mind. Dio even had the World in SBR.

This would explain why Giorno's hair became blond as dio's when the stand showed up.
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Giorno666
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Giorno666 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:30 pm

Image Sorry if it was shown but he pretty much says here that it is Johnathans Stand I think . Still it would be weird if he did not thought about using arrow on his head but he cannot really tell wheter it is his or not , can he ? Also considering that he can use Joseph ' s Stand I think that there is a possibilty that he mixes his own power with Johnathan ' s .
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby frankzappa » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:26 pm

Giorno666 wrote:Image Sorry if it was shown but he pretty much says here that it is Johnathans Stand I think . Still it would be weird if he did not thought about using arrow on his head but he cannot really tell wheter it is his or not , can he ? Also considering that he can use Joseph ' s Stand I think that there is a possibilty that he mixes his own power with Johnathan ' s .

so... the question now becomes...whats dios stand? :dio
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blind51de
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby blind51de » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:37 pm

Something similar to the green baby's Stand, but much stronger?
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Kakuma » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 am

I don't know. It seems quite logical that The World should be Jonathan's Stand but...

Is not a stand a manifestation of the psychic energy of the wielder ? In that way, I can't imagine The World not being Dio's stand.
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby G.A.G » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:08 am

I think Dio's stand is The World, the body just gave him power enough to manifest it (and powers from other Joestars' stands as an "extra").
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Giorno666 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:59 am

Now that I think about it did not Pucci mentioned at some point that in order to obtain paradise Dio had to get rid of his own Stand ? I thought that he managed to do that by getting killed by Jotaro but what if it is not how did it happen ?

Also is not Dio ' s bone actually Johnathan ' s bone ?
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby Kewl0210 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:34 pm

Just thought I'd mention, in the Over Heaven book, Dio says that The World is not his stand, it's Jonathan's body's stand. And that he also has the Stand Hermit Purple because of the connection between him and the Joestars. And he's the only one known to have two Stands.
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Re: Jonathan's Stand

Postby traxexox » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:11 pm

Joseph's appearance looks like Jonathan's appearance
some of Joseph's actions looks like Jonathan's actions
if Joseph was born in same conditions and time as a Jonathan....lol... it will be Jonathan.
They have one the "initial" soul of Joestar. Soul= Stand.
GioGio have stand similar Dio's stand "muda-muda" lol.
Joseph direct descendant of Jonathan's blood. There logic: Joseph's stand must be similar Jonathan's stand.
Deduction: Jonatan stand - Purple Hermit
sorry for my bad english
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