Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

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Dio_the_Dino
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Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Dio_the_Dino » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:25 pm

Seriously, can he stop time, make time jump, does he make it so events just cease to exist? This along with Diavolo's motives are what really confuse me...
JacobForThePhail wrote:I mean, even the duwang guy was pretty head on with the plot (Even if his english was a bit.. sketchy at times XD)
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby ClassicGuardian » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:30 pm

Yeahh! We had a thread just like this but it died, another sounds dandy. okay here's the one I usually take
He can erase time for everyone but himself. as in:

Point A - Time skip begins

Point B - Everything that happens now will have not happened to everyone else, so you wouldn't even remember it having happened since, it didn't. However...

Point C - When time skip ends, the result of everything that happened still remains, but with no evidence it happened. I need to re read this and also some other members have stellar explanations so listen to them.

I usually think of it as the Futurama episode where the time skipping particles are there, kinda the same deal IMO :)


ALSO I wanna ask also about the end of part 5, can someone again explain what polnareff was talking about with evolving and stand origins? I remember Senor Huitzil giving a great explanation and I wanna hear it again :)
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby OutlawWolf » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:22 pm

I thought one of these explain king crimson threads got closed by a mod before too.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby diavolofan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:37 pm

I always thought that Diavolo kinda used some kind of "Save State" on himself. If something would happen to him during the Time Skip, he would not be affected, like a Save Stated emulator.

...only himself, of course. :3
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby jojonounderworld » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:05 pm

But he also skips ahead 10 seconds and can change his position in space.

These threads get closed sometimes because there are so damn many of them and ppl don't bother to search around a bit before they make one. This one will not get closed, so don't worry. Just please read through the threads a bit before you ask about it, because it's been explained a million different ways and really isn't that hard to understand.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Dio_the_Dino » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:19 pm

jojonounderworld wrote:But he also skips ahead 10 seconds and can change his position in space.

These threads get closed sometimes because there are so damn many of them and ppl don't bother to search around a bit before they make one. This one will not get closed, so don't worry. Just please read through the threads a bit before you ask about it, because it's been explained a million different ways and really isn't that hard to understand.

I checked back a few pages and couldn't find it, assuming it was safe. Also, I didn't have anyone to consult before I finished part 5. To me this is what I understand:

King Crimson can skip ahead time, so in a short period where nothing seems to be happening, normal forces like gravity and such are "stacked" and double, triple, etc. when time resumes. KC can also move freely in this period but nobody else, even Diavolo, can move. This is what seperates it from The World. The people affected cannot remember what happens, either.

Am I close?
JacobForThePhail wrote:I mean, even the duwang guy was pretty head on with the plot (Even if his english was a bit.. sketchy at times XD)
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby fluffyducky » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:30 am

I always thought it was just like, skipping time 10 seconds ahead, and in those 10 seconds only Diavolo would be able to do anything, and the time is just POOF GONE for everyone else.

I gave up trying to wrap my shitty physics brain around anything in jojo.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby diavolofan » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:04 am

...i think i went wrong, back there and actually messed up the terms. XD

I actually meant something like this: Diavalo is able to "frame skip" himself about 10 seconds, while being unaffacted by others actions.

So, instead of being shot, he "skips" his state and ignores all consequences of the others acts.

If reality is like a series of "still frames", Diavolo can remove those and still get the end result he desires.

A (enemy attacks him) > B (Diavolo is hit) > C (Diavolo moves)

becomes

A & B are skipped > C (Diavolo moves)

Of course, this interpretation makes Golden Experien Requiem even more broken, IMO...
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby TaKaHaN » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:49 am

I think skip time doesn't really describe King Crimson's power.
He erase everyone's future(10 second) except his own. And he can do whatever he want during the erased 10 seconds.Whatever action done by the victim during the 10 seconds will be erased/removed.
However there is a range limit.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby jojonounderworld » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:07 am

Time skip doesn't 100% completely describe it, but it's the easiest thing to say to someone to get them to understand.

If A is before, B is the action taken in the 10 seconds, and C1 is one result of B, and C2 is another result, then:

Normal time=A B C1

Diavolo time= A C2

This is the equation. Or is there a better one? I hate math.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Hayato_Azra » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:24 am

In few words: King crimson can move in the future.

Its really simple. King crimson skips the events and erases the consequences.
Come to think of it, it "clashes" cause and effect, and erases the effect. He cant create a cause until the time itself reaches him, that´s how he "erases" time. Just by "moving foward", and the time is dependant of diavolo when he activates KC power, and not the other way around.

Actually, King Crimson´s power is not that hard to understand. Its hard to explain.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Dio_the_Dino » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:55 am

Hayato_Azra wrote:In few words: King crimson can move in the future.

Its really simple. King crimson skips the events and erases the consequences.
Come to think of it, it "clashes" cause and effect, and erases the effect. He cant create a cause until the time itself reaches him, that´s how he "erases" time. Just by "moving foward", and the time is dependant of diavolo when he activates KC power, and not the other way around.

Actually, King Crimson´s power is not that hard to understand. Its hard to explain.

This is what I gathered, but thanks anyway. When the Futurama episode was mentioned, that's when I realized what it was.
JacobForThePhail wrote:I mean, even the duwang guy was pretty head on with the plot (Even if his english was a bit.. sketchy at times XD)
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby cellery » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:39 pm

Haha, King Crimson. To be fair, King Crimson is probably one of the most confusing stands in all of Jojo, and I don't think anyone here actually knows EXACTLY what it does, so it's no surprise this question keeps popping up. Personally I was pretty damn confused about King Crimson for a long time as well (when his ability'd pop up when I was reading part 5 I'd just be like fuck it, I'm not gonna try to understand exactly and just roll with whatever happens ;P). With the help of a fellow Jojofag's explanation I came to a hypothesis tho' so I'll outline what I think it does.

Okay... so, we all know King Crimson can cause time to skip forward for 8 seconds. Whatever happens within these 8 seconds is what is "fated" to happen, no one can change this, and after these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo. The way I see it is that within these 8 seconds, Diavolo is the only one able to escape this pattern of "fate" and fully control his own actions. Say, someone moves to punch Diavolo: said punch travels along a certain trajectory towards Diavolo, is "fated" to do so, and thus "fated" to hit Diavolo. However if King Crimson causes time to skip, Diavolo can within the 8 seconds move out of the punch's trajectory and avoid being hit.

An important part of this is King Crimson's "Epitaph" ability which Doppio could also use, the ability that lets Diavolo see 8 seconds into the future. This gives Diavolo a sort of foresight, which, going back to the previous example, shows him where that punch is going to end up and will let him take apropriate action. I think this is also the difference between how Doppio and how Diavolo can use Epitaph and King Crimson: what Epitaph shows its user is that which is fated to happen, but Diavolo, unlike Doppio, is able to change the parts of said vision that specifically involve him.

It's been a while since I read part 5 and I'm sure there are some scenes which make parts of this hypothesis invalid but overall I have the idea that this is all at least fairly accurate. Hope I didn't make it too complicated. :#
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Hayato_Azra » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:39 pm

cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Black Hawk » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:19 am

Hayato_Azra wrote:
cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.


Someone didn't get the point!


That's a good theory, Cellz. I think, overall, it does explain most of it (that's also the impression it left me with). Everything else I would chalk up to Because Araki.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby cellery » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:38 am

Hayato_Azra wrote:
cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.


Except it does happen. The few times the time skip is focalized through Diavolo, we see him experience these events. Also, when Giorno and the others are outside on the boat we see that certain events occured, like Narancia taking the chocolates from Mista, and Giorno giving Fugo the water bottle. I suppose you can say that no one remembering is akin to said time being "erased", but these things do happen.

Also, they variably call it either skipping time, erasing time, time jumps, etc. It doesn't really matter what exactly you call it, the effect remains the same.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Dio_the_Dino » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:15 pm

Hayato_Azra wrote:
cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.

If you recall, Giorno used his blood to measure when time was skipped. Time wasn't erased, it literally skipped few seconds forward.
JacobForThePhail wrote:I mean, even the duwang guy was pretty head on with the plot (Even if his english was a bit.. sketchy at times XD)
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Hayato_Azra » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:37 am

Hayato_Azra wrote:
cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.


And let me explain why that statement is wrong.
Time doesnt exist. And thats a fact. Our conception of time is that of events happening, and change. In other words: Time = reality.
They dont remember things happening because they never happened. Why? Let me get an example. When Giorno cuts himself to see the blood, they would notice if blood suddenly appears in the ground, because that´s what happens, Giorno´s blood never fell, it just skipped that part and its on the ground now, thats the "consequence".
Diavolo, with KC, separates himself from the "reality" (because reality means cause and consequence). When Diavolo activates King Crimson´s ability, he is above that, can be affected LATER by the reality, but he is just an expectator of it inside King Crimson´s power, in that "dimension" we could call it, diavolo is simply an expectator, and he CANT generate a cause inside, because its going to be erased later (Or anyhow, he chooses if it gets erased and if doesnt, but i dont think is that easy) Dont you wonder why did KC just... FUCKING KILLED EVERYONE in that meantime when they exchanged bodies? because he couldnt. This is not like The World´s power, which doesnt affect real "time" for a single reason: because inside "The World" there´s a cause: a punch, and a consequence, a strike (plus the reasons i stated in the time stands thread). Diavolo just cant generate a cause inside, because he is not here. He can move freely, he is not in our reality, thats how he can see what´s going to happen inside KC´s time skip. Diavolo does have memories of that, because his memory is like an hallucination. It never happened, yet he remembers it, because he´s was OUTSIDE the reality, so he does not forget what just happened.

The few times the time skip is focalized through Diavolo, we see him experience these events. Also, when Giorno and the others are outside on the boat we see that certain events occured, like Narancia taking the chocolates from Mista, and Giorno giving Fugo the water bottle. I suppose you can say that no one remembering is akin to said time being "erased", but these things do happen.

Then by your logic KC doesnt erases time, it erases memory. On the boat, for example, Mista was going to give narancia chocolate, but he never gives it to him, narancia just has the chocolates because thats the consequence of what mista was about to do.

I hope i explained my point correctly.
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby cellery » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:56 pm

Hayato_Azra wrote:
Hayato_Azra wrote:
cellery wrote: these 8 seconds are skipped no one will remember what happened, except Diavolo.


Wrong, KC erases time. They cant forget something that didnt happened.


And let me explain why that statement is wrong.
Time doesnt exist. And thats a fact. Our conception of time is that of events happening, and change. In other words: Time = reality.
They dont remember things happening because they never happened. Why? Let me get an example. When Giorno cuts himself to see the blood, they would notice if blood suddenly appears in the ground, because that´s what happens, Giorno´s blood never fell, it just skipped that part and its on the ground now, thats the "consequence".
Diavolo, with KC, separates himself from the "reality" (because reality means cause and consequence). When Diavolo activates King Crimson´s ability, he is above that, can be affected LATER by the reality, but he is just an expectator of it inside King Crimson´s power, in that "dimension" we could call it, diavolo is simply an expectator, and he CANT generate a cause inside, because its going to be erased later (Or anyhow, he chooses if it gets erased and if doesnt, but i dont think is that easy) Dont you wonder why did KC just... FUCKING KILLED EVERYONE in that meantime when they exchanged bodies? because he couldnt. This is not like The World´s power, which doesnt affect real "time" for a single reason: because inside "The World" there´s a cause: a punch, and a consequence, a strike (plus the reasons i stated in the time stands thread). Diavolo just cant generate a cause inside, because he is not here. He can move freely, he is not in our reality, thats how he can see what´s going to happen inside KC´s time skip. Diavolo does have memories of that, because his memory is like an hallucination. It never happened, yet he remembers it, because he´s was OUTSIDE the reality, so he does not forget what just happened.

The few times the time skip is focalized through Diavolo, we see him experience these events. Also, when Giorno and the others are outside on the boat we see that certain events occured, like Narancia taking the chocolates from Mista, and Giorno giving Fugo the water bottle. I suppose you can say that no one remembering is akin to said time being "erased", but these things do happen.

Then by your logic KC doesnt erases time, it erases memory. On the boat, for example, Mista was going to give narancia chocolate, but he never gives it to him, narancia just has the chocolates because thats the consequence of what mista was about to do.

I hope i explained my point correctly.


I'm having a slightly hard time following you but I get the idea we're kind of trying to say the same, only explaining it differently for the most part. Yeah I realized I'm implying here that King Crimson doesn't erase time but memory, and with that in mind your way of putting it is probably better... explaining it as just erasing memory doesn't completely cover it but that's where the idea of "things fated to happen" which only Diavolo can deviate from that I mentioned comes in.

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean by King Crimson being unable to create a "cause" during the time skip tho'... if you mean he can't interact with his suroundings then yeah, I think that's correct. But he IS still able to move and control his actions, like in the fight at the Colloseum when he moved behind Polnareff during the skipped time. Or is that what you were trying to get across?
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Re: Can anyone explain King Crimson's ability to me? *5 Spoiler*

Postby Hayato_Azra » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:51 pm

cellery wrote:I'm still not entirely sure what you mean by King Crimson being unable to create a "cause" during the time skip tho'... if you mean he can't interact with his suroundings then yeah


Exactly. He cant interact with his sorrounding nor others, and thus, cause " something" (for example, punch someone) because that "something" inside KC´s power will not happen in "our" reality. (The punch was erased, that "fact" was lost inside King Crimson´s dimension)

And sorry if you had a hard time following me, i did had a hard time explaining myself too ( :mista ). mostly because i wrote that with less than 2 hours of sleep this morning :polnareff


To make the point clearer then, KC´s power allows Diavolo to "skip himself" to another dimension where he can act at will, and erases a given number of seconds of our reality. Making processes or actions to be finished, or " Clashed" with the cause of that action, so what happens in between will be erased. Diavolo is the only one who knows what happened in between.
Last edited by Hayato_Azra on Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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