Part 4 hate?

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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Kira Kira » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:43 am

Nabu-san wrote:
Kira Kira wrote:
Nabu-san wrote:Josuke vs Kira felt like an obligatory fight because Josuke is the Jojo and Kira the villain, there's literally no reason for me to care about that fight, no mention of Fatty or Okuyasu, no mention of Reimi, not Kira thinking about maybe he liked Shinobu after all.


Josuke and/or Okuyasu mention Shigechi and Reimi's deaths right at the beginning of the fight as their motivation for finding and defeating Kira, and Okuyasu's possible death was Josuke's source of emotional tension for much of the battle (although I admit it would've been better if Okuyasu actually died).

You are right for Shigechi only. Too bad I hate the character.


Tbh, I hated Shigechi too. He had the same problem as Mark from Part 2 and Tsuji Aya (a character I did like); introduced solely to be killed off by the villain and build up emotional drama for the heroes.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:38 pm

@Asden, if your post is meant as a defense of Kira, then it's poorly made. Your are basically reiterating my last criticism.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Asden » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:50 pm

Nabu-san wrote:@Asden, if your post is meant as a defense of Kira, then it's poorly made. Your are basically reiterating my last criticism.


Yeah, I said you're right on what you say, but the same, uh...facts? You think that Kira make a bad villain, to me make him an interesting or entertaining one. I don't like Kira because he is smart, or because he is particularly threatening, cunning, etc.; I like him because of the almost complete opposite, we could say that I like the narrative behind him.

It might seem pretty weird since if I wanted to defend Kira I should say "No, he is really smart because [x], Bites the Dust is OP since [x], his motivations are original in a villain and his design is awesome!", right? And fill those X with the reasons you say people like Kira for.

Though, I must say that Kira is as good as a villain as Diamond goes, I'd hardly say the same of him if he was on another part with completely different narrative, setting and characters, but within DiU he fits very well.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:27 pm

Elaborate on "fit DiU very well", please.

To me Kira is a narrative mess, Araki likes him a lot, but that's because he did a lot of different things with him, he made scenes of Kira being fun, impressive, scary, despicable, pitiable, sympathetic, but the end results is that he is ultimately neither. By trying to make him be everything at once, he may have made a string of good individual scenes but the overall characterization is poor, and that's not talking about his relationship with other characters which is shit. The strong points of JJBA have always been characterization and drama, Kira fails to deliver in both.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Asden » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:55 pm

Nabu-san wrote:Elaborate on "fit DiU very well", please.


He is mostly in line with the slice of life aspect of DiU. I mean, his whole objective is living while getting away with his murders and fetish, he doesn't pretend something like taking over Japan and make every woman with pretty hands his sex toy, he just doesn't want to be bothered. All in all, everyone knows him as more or less regular citizen, and, his serial killing aside, that's what he wants to be too, and he doesn't even interact with the protagonists until they bother him.

There is the thing, too, that Kira wouldn't fit well in other parts as a main villain, he would need to be a character with different objective/role, and that, well, would not be Kira.

Nabu-san wrote:To me Kira is a narrative mess, Araki likes him a lot, but that's because he did a lot of different things with him, he made scenes of Kira being fun, impressive, scary, despicable, pitiable, sympathetic, but the end results is that he is ultimately neither. By trying to make him be everything at once, he may have made a string of good individual scenes but the overall characterization is poor, and that's not talking about his relationship with other characters which is shit. The strong points of JJBA have always been characterization and drama, Kira fails to deliver in both.


It's alright if you dislike however Araki handled him, I don't pretend to change the way you see characters or villains, for that matter.

Though, I didn't mean narrative as in what I like about his personality (I do, but not the point), it's more of a thing that it amuses me seeing a character that is not fit for being a very big bad villain; becoming one. In regards to what he does when he becomes one, well, that's slightly less interesting, I think Araki didn't improve him much when he took Kawajiri's life.

I'd be lying if I didn't expect a little more than just Bites the Dust and Stray Cat as his new weapons for the final fight, because even if Araki managed to make it very entertaining, Bites the Dust is a little lackluster as a 'final boss' ability, plus he (Araki) cop-outed himself of putting the stakes as high as possible (meaning: not killing anybody except for Shigechi, whom I don't think many cared about), in that sense, Kira had more potential when he became Kawajiri. I'd say that Araki had a very fast car but ended up driving slower.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby ORA2 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:07 am

There is no hate. They simply wanted another Part3, where it originally planned to be a trilogy.
Everybody wanted another Kujo Jotaro vs DIO,
but the author had doubts about simply adding new enemies stronger than before.
Part4 was the answer to the Dragonball approach, and everybody liked Dragonball back in the day.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Alfabusa » Sun May 29, 2016 7:26 pm

While Nabu may have points that are 'correct', ones that I myself probably wouldn't be able to make good counterpoints to, I personally can't see Kira in the same light.
Kira remains one of the best main villains in the series to me. As much as anyone says that he is 'poorly executed', I cannot help but disagree - but I wouldn't be able to tell you why.
And that's probably for the better too. I don't wanna do some massive character study and risk end up disliking the character in the same manner if Nabu really is on-point with his opinion upon the character.

For me, Kira worked great. REAL great. He brought an intense atmosphere with him, and I love how you pretty much end up 'cheering' for him when he was in a tight spot, even though he's a serial killer and the main villain. I enjoyed all scenes with him thoroughly.

Also, all his three looks are great, especially Bites the Dust Kosaku, dunno what he talkin bout.

Oh also, yeah, I think there's way less Part 4 hate in Japan than people think.
Actually, the only P4 hate I've ever seen in general were from anime-onlys who didn't even know the manga was a thing.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:11 am

Alfabusa wrote:While Nabu may have points that are 'correct', ones that I myself probably wouldn't be able to make good counterpoints to, I personally can't see Kira in the same light.
Kira remains one of the best main villains in the series to me. As much as anyone says that he is 'poorly executed', I cannot help but disagree - but I wouldn't be able to tell you why.
And that's probably for the better too. I don't wanna do some massive character study and risk end up disliking the character in the same manner if Nabu really is on-point with his opinion upon the character.

I disagree with you but I can't be bothered to construct a real argumentation for fear I am wrong

Come on... :jotaro
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Alfabusa » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:25 am

Nabu-san wrote:
Alfabusa wrote:While Nabu may have points that are 'correct', ones that I myself probably wouldn't be able to make good counterpoints to, I personally can't see Kira in the same light.
Kira remains one of the best main villains in the series to me. As much as anyone says that he is 'poorly executed', I cannot help but disagree - but I wouldn't be able to tell you why.
And that's probably for the better too. I don't wanna do some massive character study and risk end up disliking the character in the same manner if Nabu really is on-point with his opinion upon the character.

I disagree with you but I can't be bothered to construct a real argumentation for fear I am wrong

Come on... :jotaro


Thing is that there is no point in me constructing an argument, because this is entirely subjective. I cannot be 'wrong'. And you can't either.
I fuckn' adore Kira, and I am pretty sure a big majority does, but all of it is subjective opinions.
If you dislike him then sure, whatever. Still subjective.
There is no objective reason for why Kira is a bad or a good character. It is all up to the readers personal interpretation. That, incidentally, goes for all fiction.
I could argue as to why I despise a certain popular game and go on rants as to why it's bad, and I could make my points look as objective as possible, to give it an air of authority if you will.
But that still won't change the fact that I am basing it off of a personal bias and that, in the end, people will still play that game no matter how much I complain about it.

Discussing the flaws of a character is of course not something that should be discouraged either - but making it look like your opinion is the unequivocally correct opinion to have, like you did here:

Nabu-san wrote:
NaranciaBestWaifu wrote:Wait what ? For real ? What's the problem with part 4 ? That's like (one of the) best part, the funniest one, and of course, THERE'S FREAKING KIRA!


Worst villain, no wonder some hate the part.


- is what usually kills all form of discussion in any fandom because it just becomes a game of salt-launching at that point.
From my years of excessive lurking on this forum, I've seen that you have a problem with this. You tend to package your opinions up in wrappings of perceived objectivity.
You're good at arguing your points, sure - but you tend to make all of your discussions a case of right and wrong, in which you are always in the right.
Maybe you aren't even aware of this problem. Maybe you are but you can't help yourself - it's a pretty human thing to do after all, I know I've done it alot in the past before I realized I was kinda shitting on everyones parade. Or maaaaybe, you just don't care.

All in all though, you should work on that to make these forums a nicer place. Humble it up. If you care that is, again, dunno if you do.
But THEN AGAIN, I'm just some random lurker Newborn right? Who am I to play psychologist.

There, that's my big thread-derailing post of the day. Sorry.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:36 am

Alfabusa wrote:Thing is that there is no point in me constructing an argument, because this is entirely subjective. I cannot be 'wrong'. And you can't either.
I fuckn' adore Kira, and I am pretty sure a big majority does, but all of it is subjective opinions.
If you dislike him then sure, whatever. Still subjective.
There is no objective reason for why Kira is a bad or a good character. It is all up to the readers personal interpretation. That, incidentally, goes for all fiction.
I could argue as to why I despise a certain popular game and go on rants as to why it's bad, and I could make my points look as objective as possible, to give it an air of authority if you will.
But that still won't change the fact that I am basing it off of a personal bias and that, in the end, people will still play that game no matter how much I complain about it.


Oh yes, subjectivity, such a good reason not to discuss.
Yes I have opinions, bias, and stuff, and then? Is that a reason not to discuss? The whole point of a discussion is exposing one's opinions, regardless of bias.

By refusing to make the effort of reflecting on why you think Kira is great beyond "he felt great", you're bringing less than you could/should have to the discussion. Even with the aesthetic bias, it's not like you didn't have any logic of appreciation that isn't worth reflecting upon and posting. Yeah Kira worked great to you, why? In what is the atmosphere around him intense? What made you cheering up for him and not the heroes since he's the villain and a serial killer? Weren't those precisions worth posting?
At best you're being lazy, at worst you genuinely do not have any idea why you appreciate this and not that when it comes to manga. Why do you fear the possibility of ending up disliking Kira? Hindsight never changed anyone's opinion about liking a character or not, people still can recognize something is bad and like, or say something is great while not giving a shit about it. By skipping directly to "let's agree to disagree", you are doing the contrary of every forum's aim: bringing discussion.

Alfabusa wrote:Discussing the flaws of a character is of course not something that should be discouraged either - but making it look like your opinion is the unequivocally correct opinion to have, like you did here:

Nabu-san wrote:
NaranciaBestWaifu wrote:Wait what ? For real ? What's the problem with part 4 ? That's like (one of the) best part, the funniest one, and of course, THERE'S FREAKING KIRA!


Worst villain, no wonder some hate the part.


- is what usually kills all form of discussion in any fandom because it just becomes a game of salt-launching at that point.
From my years of excessive lurking on this forum, I've seen that you have a problem with this. You tend to package your opinions up in wrappings of perceived objectivity.
You're good at arguing your points, sure - but you tend to make all of your discussions a case of right and wrong, in which you are always in the right.
Maybe you aren't even aware of this problem. Maybe you are but you can't help yourself - it's a pretty human thing to do after all, I know I've done it alot in the past before I realized I was kinda shitting on everyones parade. Or maaaaybe, you just don't care.

All in all though, you should work on that to make these forums a nicer place. Humble it up. If you care that is, again, dunno if you do.
But THEN AGAIN, I'm just some random lurker Newborn right? Who am I to play psychologist.

There, that's my big thread-derailing post of the day. Sorry.


Pretty sure my comment did create something to discuss on.

Besides, yes, I do say "X is right, that's the truth". And I say that's my way of respecting my interlocutor. Stuff like "but that's my opinion", "it's subjective", and merely saying "I think ..." are 1) a waste of time since of course everything I'm gonna say is my opinion, is subjective, and I think it 2) misplaced humility. Humility is not belittling oneself, it's knowing their place. And I am an individual whose opinions have been thought out over the years, is worth expressing; and defending. When I expose a big post, where I lay everythink I think to someone, that's because I think they are interlocutors worht the effort. I can only lament that you do not do the same, Alfabusa.

A nice forum is an active forum, I prefer a place where people do argue even if that occasionally leads to senseless arguments and insults (that's why we have moderators) than a dead forum where everyone is posting their stuff without minding the next poster, and where "everyone agrees to disagree". That's stagnation, that's not why forum exists.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby WranglerPig » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:19 pm

Generally I would say that Kira's concept was a rather interesting take at the time: a desire of living a quiet life while having this carnal desire leading to serial killing. This is shown by many of his bizarre habits obviously, and his Stand Killer Queen. Kira finds his ability to eliminate victims and witnesses without a single trace as a source of arrogance, as he believes this, combined with his strategical thinking and "luck", make him an unstoppable killer. The Stand-to-user matchup is solid. I would say that a lot of these elements come from the surprise, however, once you expect Kira, he kinda loses the impact. I would also say that he becomes somewhat weaker towards the end, especially with the whole Bite the Dust shenanigans where his arrogance gets a one-up and behaves a bit like a generic villain. There is also the whole wether or not he can care about others, but he's still just a killerwith maybe a shred of emotion.

Overall I still think Kira is solid, but those who dislike him have thier legitimate reasons. Discussion is what the whole forum is for, and as long as nothing hits the fan, it's all fine. Besides, everything is subjective at this point.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Alfabusa » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:22 pm

Nabu-san wrote:
Pretty sure my comment did create something to discuss on.

Besides, yes, I do say "X is right, that's the truth". And I say that's my way of respecting my interlocutor. Stuff like "but that's my opinion", "it's subjective", and merely saying "I think ..." are 1) a waste of time since of course everything I'm gonna say is my opinion, is subjective, and I think it 2) misplaced humility. Humility is not belittling oneself, it's knowing their place. And I am an individual whose opinions have been thought out over the years, is worth expressing; and defending. When I expose a big post, where I lay everythink I think to someone, that's because I think they are interlocutors worht the effort. I can only lament that you do not do the same, Alfabusa.

A nice forum is an active forum, I prefer a place where people do argue even if that occasionally leads to senseless arguments and insults (that's why we have moderators) than a dead forum where everyone is posting their stuff without minding the next poster, and where "everyone agrees to disagree". That's stagnation, that's not why forum exists.


Ay, not a bad response. I didn't expect something as thorough as that.
I may be projecting a bit. I guess that in the midst of you respecting your own interlocutor and blasting your opinion, you come off as a bit passive aggressive.
And my presumptive viewpoint of people who are passive aggressive in communities are that they are usually out only to flaunt their 'intellectual superiority', shit on parades and attain that slight feeling of euphoria you get when you're 'in the right'.
And, that is (in myyyy opinion) something that turns communities sour.
But again, projecting. Perhaps I misjudged you.
This response of yours wasn't what I would've expected from someone like that.

But fuck it, I'll try to play the game.

I can start off by saying that I'm a simple creature that usually does not try to overanalyse characters as I know that they are merely fictional constructs by fallible human beings.
In addition, every human has that one little thing that, despite it's flaws, its perfect to them. That's JoJo to me. So I am a whole lot more lenient to all that is JoJo, and I am totally okay with that.
JoJo is not very deep in its characters, so I usually just take things at face value and go with it.
So uh, I obviously have a huge bias, and everything I say can obviously be discredited because of that.

And that is the bulk of my post made up above, the one you called me lazy for.
I am obviously your typical fanboy. I am primarily basing my opinion of the character of Kira off the feelings he brought to me during the times I read Part 4. I loved all parts with Kira in 'em.
Can I accurately and thoroughly explain WHY he made me feel that way on a whim?
Nnnnno...

What I wanted to bring to the discussion wasn't a counter-argument, but rather a sort of clarification that most people have prooobably not analysed the characters as thoroughly as you seemed to have. Most people who say that Kira is great are most likely doing so for the same reason I am. And that's okay.
So I'm not really trying to be lazy, I just want to defend the notion that you don't have to have analysed a character to enjoy them.
Or maybe you're not overanalysing. Maybe all those points you had about Kira just came to you naturally as you read Part 4.
They didn't for me though and I ain't complaining.

But if I would TRY to answer the questions you posed after thinking for a bit.
The thing that brought the intense atmosphere was a coalition of what made his character. The fact that I can totally imagine some neighbour committing the same sort of atrocities and getting away with it. The ways he was drawn, that merciless gaze, and that he wore such casual attire in JoJo just brought a realism to his character. I could legit imagine that Kira is how a mentally unstable murderer with a hand fetish and a convenient superpower would be like in real life.

To draw a comparison, I always feel like Angelo was a more horrible person than Kira.
But the difference is that Kira's actions, his behaviour, his clothing, his family's attitude and his reason for committing murders have more anchors grounded in reality than Angelo's does.

One memory I have of reading Part 4 with my ex was when we reached the scene where Kira was stuck in the Kosaku household, seeing girls walking by outside and lamenting about how he totally wants to strangle them. She had to pause hee reading for a bit because of how uncomfortable and dark that bit was. His character isn't over-the-top like most JoJo-villains, he's just a murderer.
And murderers are scary, awful people. Of course, most villains are in JoJo, but the previously mentioned anchors grounded in reality, and of course the scenes lampooning his demented behaviour, made him that much more interesting.

As for why I cheered him on when situations turned dire. That one is harder to answer.
I guess it's a case of underdog-syndrome. Like, I watched a YouTube video the other day where an escaped convict got caught by a policeman looking around for him. He managed to convince the policeman that he was just out for a jog and that he didn't know anything about said convict. In that situation I suddenly found myself kinda cheering for him because its such an incredibly intense situation with such high stakes, even if he was an escaped convict. Does that make sense? I hope it does.

Also, I love the design of Killer Queen, and I feel it nicely compliments his character, with the big aesthetic focus on skulls as well as it's feline design with sharp, menacing eyes.

Hope that works for reasons why I like Kira.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:40 pm

Glad I could change your opinion of me and make you discuss more throughoutly about Kira.

I almost totally agree that most people simply follow the show that is JJBA and that it may be the best way to like the manga, and that hindsight is the worst enjoyment killer for a Jojo fan.
An abysmal minority of the fandom actually reread the manga and the others follow what was their first impression. Fun IS the best selling point of the series, after all.

Well I'm not like that and I continuously reread every part of Jojo, very regularly. I'm the kind of "intellectual" guy who likes to appreciate the media he reads/watch as a craft (and that there's not as many people doing this as I'd wish still makes me sad, because it's alwasy interesting to decrypt what makes something great or horrible to you), and thus beyond appreciating characters as "people", which is done on the first read, I also appreciate them as "narrative devices", which is done on something like the 5th reread, at least for me. And for the many reasons I already listed, first Kira never clicked on me as a "person", and the worth as a "narrative device" didn't follow either. Villains like Diavolo do not click on me either, but their worth as "narrative device" totally make up for it.

So I totally agree on the majority of what you're saying he's great like feline motif, underdog status, not being over the top, his sexual fetish, but I view them as a bunch of good ideas whose sum is a total miss.

btw Alfabusa, you are underestimating how complex and well-thought the characters are, one good example being Joseph who I think managed to stay coherent while evolving in the span of three parts.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Alfabusa » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:57 pm

Nabu-san wrote:Glad I could change your opinion of me and make you discuss more throughoutly about Kira.

I almost totally agree that most people simply follow the show that is JJBA and that it may be the best way to like the manga, and that hindsight is the worst enjoyment killer for a Jojo fan.
An abysmal minority of the fandom actually reread the manga and the others follow what was their first impression. Fun IS the best selling point of the series, after all.

Well I'm not like that and I continuously reread every part of Jojo, very regularly. I'm the kind of "intellectual" guy who likes to appreciate the media he reads/watch as a craft (and that there's not as many people doing this as I'd wish still makes me sad, because it's alwasy interesting to decrypt what makes something great or horrible to you), and thus beyond appreciating characters as "people", which is done on the first read, I also appreciate them as "narrative devices", which is done on something like the 5th reread, at least for me. And for the many reasons I already listed, first Kira never clicked on me as a "person", and the worth as a "narrative device" didn't follow either. Villains like Diavolo do not click on me either, but their worth as "narrative device" totally make up for it.

So I totally agree on the majority of what you're saying he's great like feline motif, underdog status, not being over the top, his sexual fetish, but I view them as a bunch of good ideas whose sum is a total miss.

btw Alfabusa, you are underestimating how complex and well-thought the characters are, one good example being Joseph who I think managed to stay coherent while evolving in the span of three parts.


Well it's always good to be wrong about these kindsa things!

Nevertheless, indeed good points, absolutely.
I guess the difference is that I feel that the sum of those ideas did hit for me, many times throughout the story, especially during his time stuck in the Kosaku household.
I do see many complain about his change of demeanour when he attains Bites the Dust, but honestly, I liked it - after being down on his luck for such an extended time, he suddenly attained an ability capable of saving him from all his grief. And after that, his hubris got the best of him - and I really enjoyed his burst of overconfidence. It was nice to see him fully embrace his role as main villain after having such a shit time dealing with the protagonists and his depraved lusts. And yeah, it totally backfired - which just goes with the theme of 'overconfidence kills' that pretty much all JoJo-villains have in the original universe.

And I totally just realized I am a hypocrite, because I love Diavolo for reasons that aren't all face-value. I love him because he has an unprecedented depth that most just ignore. Same goes for, say, Giorno - who so many shit on for being 'boring', but I find myself having the strongest emotional attachment to him amongst all JoJos.

Which nicely segways into me underestimating characters. And yeah, I may just do that. But make no mistake, I KNOW that a majority of characters in JoJo have way more depth to them when compared to most any other generic manga. I just have such an easy time getting lost in what is happening in the spur of the moment that I do not fully appreciate the depths and nuances of characters doing whatever they may be doing. It's like hanging out with friends, I don't analyze their personalities and actions, I just enjoy their company and have fun.
And that's another reason why JoJo is great, really. It combines the two, adds more layers to the experience.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby ColonelMagenta943 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:30 pm

Nabu-san wrote:
LegendarySSJ4 wrote:Why do you deem Kira as the 'worst villain' in JJBA?


-He's infuriatingly dumb even accounting for character flaws.
-Even more so when everyone else say "oh look out, he's smart".
-Whatever accomplishment he has is due to dumb luck or worse the heroes doing a mistake they shouldn't have done in the first place.
-For a serial killer, we only get a mediocre scene of him actually killing a victim.
-Killer Queen's potential is wasted on TWO automatic substands, BtD being a particularly dumb power.
-All chapters dedicated to his new "life" are wasted when his personality becomes that of a generic villain.
-Kira comes off as a spoiled brat since his father does all the work until Yoshihiro cannot do it anymore because KIRA screwed up by killing Hayato, and then he throws a tantrum.
-Kira's as threatening as a shrimp, never once did I think "Oh good move" or "He's someone you don't mess up with".
-His relationship with the heroes is virtually nonexistent. He kills a girl Rohan doesn't remember and has to be reminded of, he kills that one asshole Josuke and Okuyasu call friend. He may have hurt Jotaro and almost killed Koichi but because it doesn't stick, there's no drama. By the time Kira almost kills Okuyasu, it's too late and not important enough. You know what, Koichi had a pretty and arguably likeable girlfriend, Yukako was the perfect character to give an emotional incentive for the heroes to fight Kira, but no instead we get scenes of Kira being a joke and being slowly cornered as he does nothing about it. Josuke vs Kira felt like an obligatory fight because Josuke is the Jojo and Kira the villain, there's literally no reason for me to care about that fight, no mention of Fatty or Okuyasu, no mention of Reimi, not Kira thinking about maybe he liked Shinobu after all. Actions scenes and pretty one-liners are not enough to make a good fight. That's what Bleach does.
-His second and third designs are ugly as fuck.
-On top of that everyone's praising him as "well-written" because "omg a villain that has humble aspirations how original", goddamnit originality is worth shit if the execution is poor


He was the antithesis of the peace which Josuke wanted for his town, I did wish both met a bit more times.
Generic villains? You disliked his character conflict when he obtained his new identity? That's rare .
Bites the dust is far superior than King Crimson BS POWERS.
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Nabu-san
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Nabu-san » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:42 pm

LegendarySSJ4 wrote:Bites the dust is far superior than King Crimson BS POWERS.


>complaining about bullshit
>when reading JJBA

might as well drop the series entirely, SSJ4. Jojo lives on bullshit.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Gee Bone » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 am

Nabu-san wrote:
LegendarySSJ4 wrote:Bites the dust is far superior than King Crimson BS POWERS.


>complaining about bullshit
>when reading JJBA

might as well drop the series entirely, SSJ4. Jojo lives on bullshit.

I don't think that's a valid excuse.
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Kira Kira » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:21 pm

To be fair, King Crimson didn't have "BS powers". It was just portrayed in a rather abstract and inconsistent manner throughout its appearances, like a lot of Stand powers in JoJo (e.g. The Hand, Gold Experience, Chariot Requiem, Limp Bizkit, Whitesnake, Paisley Park).
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Gurren361
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby Gurren361 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:41 pm

Personally I like part 4. I think it has a great main lead, villains, and side characters. It has interesting fights and stands, and the setting creates a feeling of connection between the areas they go to. I also like how this party doesn't really take itself as serious as others parts, takeing make entire chapters about Josue and okuyasu's get rich schemes. But I can definitely see why people wouldn't like thisnlaid back approach to the story. And also the biggest problem to me about it is that the part has so many interesting characters but we barley get any time to get to know them but all and all I think that part 4 is a pretty fun part
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Re: Part 4 hate?

Postby OneGamer2EnvyThemAll » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Kira Kira wrote:To be fair, King Crimson didn't have "BS powers". It was just portrayed in a rather abstract and inconsistent manner throughout its appearances, like a lot of Stand powers in JoJo (e.g. The Hand, Gold Experience, Chariot Requiem, Limp Bizkit, Whitesnake, Paisley Park).


Diavolo is actually kinda overpowered, if not just a tad bit BS. He's the only villain that isn't any stronger by the end of his part than when he was introduced (he didn't need to), and he managed to kill 3 members of a 5-man team that the story had to make it a point that the Arrow was basically the only way to gain an ability capable of defeating him.

Part 4 is pretty legit; It's in my upper half of favorite JoJo parts.
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