Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

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Szayell22
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Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Szayell22 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:18 pm

I've always been puzzled by Pucci's character.

One moment, The way he acts trough Part 6 makes it looks like he's doing terrible things for what he considers "greater good", the next moment he's abusing Gucci's corpse by sticking a disc on his brain and playing his favourite melody for his own amusement. Not to mention he used Dio's signature knife attack on Jolyne just to fuck with Jotaro.

This brings me to another point. Since he has Jotaro's memory disc, he centrally knew what kind of person DIO was, with him casually killing civilians and a cat for the hell of it at Cairo.

He's pretty much elevating a murderous Vampire to the status of God, while believing that he's doing the right thing of humanity.

So what do you thing of him. Is he good, evil or just batshit insane?
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Nabu-san » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:05 pm

He's insane and evil.
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Banjo Jonochi
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Banjo Jonochi » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:08 pm

To paraphrase a quote Weather Report said about Pucci:

"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil, is the worst kind of evil there is."
Joshua Davis: Especially when it's ******' JustKeepThatInMind, the dude does rants about bird **** and trees! How the **** can you take the man's words seriously!
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby umgogo » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:20 pm

Dio's character in Part 6 is quite different from that of Part 1/3. In Stone Ocean, he talks about being prepared to sacrifice anything to reach a spiritually elevated state, and we learn that he left documents mapping out how to reach "Heaven." He also heals Pucci's foot when they first meet, and appears to treat him as an equal. Even if we take all of his previous actions into account, it is possible that he (through retconning) had changed and was seeking "redemption", and almost certain that Pucci believed that he was.

(The scene where Dio tells Pucci to take his Stand disc and become the most powerful Stand user, and Pucci refuses, is somewhat reminiscent of a sinner going to confession and being granted a second chance. Of course, Pucci wasn't a priest at the time, but he was already determined to spend his life in service to God.)

Pucci himself seems to have two closely related goals:

1) to enter "Dio's world", possibly resurrecting him or at least honoring his memory

2) to create a world free of the element of "surprise" for humanity's sake, so that none will have to suffer as he has

He states that he will gladly accept death as long as his goal is accomplished, so I assume that he has given up on finding personal happiness in this world since Dio and his sister are gone.

I wouldn't call him evil, since he seems to genuinely believe that his actions serve a greater good. He shows little to no sympathy for anyone not sharing his goals, so I can't call him good, either. Exactly how his version of Instrumentality works is pretty iffy, but it seems to make sense in JoJoland, so I hesitate to brand him clinically insane. I would say he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who needs therapy.
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Carolina AIR FORCE » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:04 am

Yes.
He made Mirashon pale in comparison who is a Marilyn Manson reference you know self proclaimed,"the all American anti christ." Yes, I consider him evil.


Even so, God is kind to the unthankful and the evil, and also, both good and bad shall attend the marriage supper of the Lamb
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby frankzappa » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:47 pm

well, heaven aside, the dude was still an ultra violent asshole.
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Joker » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:22 pm

umgogo wrote:I wouldn't call him evil, since he seems to genuinely believe that his actions serve a greater good. He shows little to no sympathy for anyone not sharing his goals, so I can't call him good, either. Exactly how his version of Instrumentality works is pretty iffy, but it seems to make sense in JoJoland, so I hesitate to brand him clinically insane. I would say he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who needs therapy.

Naturally Pucci considers his actions righteous, no one would commit such acts thinking they were evil, that's what extremism is. Not once does he think about how much suffering and death he causes for others. He engages in pointless aggression against others like his treatment of Mirashon and ruthless behaviour, such as him killing his loyal comrade Johngalli when he failed to defeat Jotaro.

The only way to really argue that Pucci isn't "evil" would be to suggest that he is mentally incompetent to understand the nature of his actions. I remember an interesting debate recently about Kira in which how much of his serial killings was down to his personality versus a perceived mental condition.
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umgogo
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby umgogo » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:27 pm

Joker wrote:
umgogo wrote:I wouldn't call him evil, since he seems to genuinely believe that his actions serve a greater good. He shows little to no sympathy for anyone not sharing his goals, so I can't call him good, either. Exactly how his version of Instrumentality works is pretty iffy, but it seems to make sense in JoJoland, so I hesitate to brand him clinically insane. I would say he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who needs therapy.

Naturally Pucci considers his actions righteous, no one would commit such acts thinking they were evil, that's what extremism is. Not once does he think about how much suffering and death he causes for others. He engages in pointless aggression against others like his treatment of Mirashon and ruthless behaviour, such as him killing his loyal comrade Johngalli when he failed to defeat Jotaro.

The only way to really argue that Pucci isn't "evil" would be to suggest that he is mentally incompetent to understand the nature of his actions. I remember an interesting debate recently about Kira in which how much of his serial killings was down to his personality versus a perceived mental condition.


I already stated that Pucci is an extremist, but that is not synonymous with "evil." He thinks that his actions will, in the end, lead to less suffering for humanity as a whole, not just for himself or those who are on his side. It seems that he doesn't realize that most people probably wouldn't prefer his "world without surprises" to the current one. The reason for this detachment is not clear, but he all but states that Dio was the only person to ever understand him (which I suppose can be chalked up to Dio's much vaunted "charisma"). Near as I can tell, he's the link between Gendou Ikari and Sousuke Aizen (they even share voice actors!).

Compare and contrast with Part 1/3 Dio and Kars, who only strived to rule over mankind to satisfy their own desires and viewed everyone else as insignificant bugs rather than creatures capable of attaining "Heaven" or even sheep in need of a shepherd.

Johngall A. was killed as a means of keeping the Jotaro affair secret and to pin the blame of a dead guard on him. Again, if you accept that Pucci's plan was justifiable in his mind, this was a reasonable, if overly paranoid, course of action.

It may be worth mentioning that Whitesnake is the one to shoot Johngalli A., and that it is portrayed as more malevolent than Pucci himself, particularly early in the story. (It speaks in katakana and tells Xander McQueen that it likes him because of his "evil nature", evoking the tempting serpent from the Bible. I assume that Araki meant for Whitesnake's user to be less morally ambiguous at the point.) Overall, Pucci's Stand evolving from the sickening (those eyes!) and devious Whitesnake to the starkly unnatural C-Moon (which is part Whitesnake, part plant and part Dio) to the alien but almost angelic-looking Made in Heaven mirrors his own development as a character.

I do agree about Mirashon, though she was trying to trick him into granting her early parole, and to be fair, in JoJo that kind of chastizing is equivalent to a dope slap. (See: Kakyoin elbowing Polnareff in the nose in place of a make-up handshake.) ;)

One example of Pucci acting like a classic villain is when he leaves a prison guard to die during the poison dart frog downpour. (The guard shows up but is too scared to stay and open a gate to let Pucci out, so Pucci makes a frog explode in the guard's face and has him give him his passcard so that he can lead him to safety. Of course, the guard should have helped him in the first place, but it was still petty and cruel.)

And yeah, there's the time where he used Gucci as a CD player, but AFAIK he was already a goner by that point, so that was mostly bizarre (and somewhat out of character, especially for a priest).

Kira is hard to peg down, because at times (mostly early on) he "talks to the hands" as though they were sentient beings, and seems to consider his actions unusual, but ultimately normal or at least morally acceptable. Later, he muses on his nature as a serial killer in a detached manner*, and at one point** (anime only?) he argues that since a woman has an ugly personality, killing her and taking her beautiful hand is A-OK. At any rate, he shows more signs of being "mentally unsound" than any other JoJo big bad, save perhaps for Diavolo.

* "People can't deny their basic urges", "When I first saw the Mona Lisa's hands..."
** The woman who complained to her friend that her fiancé had bought her a cheap, childish ring.
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Kira Kira » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:25 pm

umgogo wrote:and at one point** (anime only?) he argues that since a woman has an ugly personality, killing her and taking her beautiful hand is A-OK.

** The woman who complained to her friend that her fiancé had bought her a cheap, childish ring.


This was in the manga too, so it's right in line with Kira's personality and negative attitude towards people that don't act "proper".
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Re: Would you consider Pucci to be evil?

Postby Peridot » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Kira is an extremely complex villain. Considering that he was following Dio, he had to be complex and interesting in order to keep readers invested. Kira is a very believable Serial Killer archetype and Araki kinda did the impossible with making Kira such. Normally Villains that follow the iconic villain are bland and forgettable, yet Kira has his own merits. Kira has the best motivation out of all the Jojo villains. He's no Dio, but he's still a powerful villain that leaves quite an impression on you.

Back to Pucci. I interpreted that Pucci was an extremist and honestly wanted what he believed was best for Humanity, which would be the world Dio imagined. I don't think he erased the Joestar bloodline completely (At least Jonathan would of remained for the sake of Dio's Survival and Dio's sons.) He was merely doing what he thought would be best for Dio.

Pucci was seduced by Dio's ideology and wanted to fulfil that. He never saw his actions as evil. He saw his actions as what was best for Dio. It's funny because that's the mindset a cult would often take.

He still should of got the death loop though.
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