The gravity of the Arrow

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Kira Kira
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The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kira Kira » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:28 pm

OK, so it appears that, from Kira's father's introduction onwards, the Bow and Arrow "chooses" the user; i.e. it is attracted to those with the spiritual potential to become Stand users. That's why, for instance, Kira's father doesn't understand why his Arrow gravitates towards the Rock-Paper-Scissors boy or Mikitaka, but he throws it at them anyway. (This is also suggested to be behind Kira's father's "accidental" piercing of Kira a second time, granting him Bites the Dust).

But earlier in Part 4, Keicho mentions having killed a lot of people to find a Stand user capable of killing his father, and it's the entire reason Koichi and the others want to take the Bow and Arrow away from him. For example, Keicho apparently chose Angelo of his own volition, because - linking back to a theme that began with Dio and his zombies in Part 1 - criminals tend to make stronger Stand users or minions. If the Arrow chooses people based on their spiritual strength, then it should only pierce those who have the will to survive it in the first place.

The only legitimate exception here should be the Arrow within Black Sabbath, as it's part of the Stand, and said Stand only appears when Polpo's lighter is extinguished and solely attacks those who've seen the aforementioned lighter going out.

So is this a retcon? A plothole? Both?
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kyojo777 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:38 pm

Kira Kira wrote:OK, so it appears that, from Kira's father's introduction onwards, the Bow and Arrow "chooses" the user; i.e. it is attracted to those with the spiritual potential to become Stand users. That's why, for instance, Kira's father doesn't understand why his Arrow gravitates towards the Rock-Paper-Scissors boy or Mikitaka, but he throws it at them anyway. (This is also suggested to be behind Kira's father's "accidental" piercing of Kira a second time, granting him Bites the Dust).

But earlier in Part 4, Keicho mentions having killed a lot of people to find a Stand user capable of killing his father, and it's the entire reason Koichi and the others want to take the Bow and Arrow away from him. For example, Keicho apparently chose Angelo of his own volition, because - linking back to a theme that began with Dio and his zombies in Part 1 - criminals tend to make stronger Stand users or minions. If the Arrow chooses people based on their spiritual strength, then it should only pierce those who have the will to survive it in the first place.

The only legitimate exception here should be the Arrow within Black Sabbath, as it's part of the Stand, and said Stand only appears when Polpo's lighter is extinguished and solely attacks those who've seen the aforementioned lighter going out.

So is this a retcon? A plothole? Both?


Koichi was rather desperate to find a stand user who could kill his father, so perhaps he simply didn't notice that the arrow had such a quality, and just shot the arrow indiscriminately. Another explanation is that Koichi only had the arrow for a short time as opposed to Kira's dad, and probably thought he was imagining the arrow 'gravitating' towards certain people, again he was rather unhinged. A third explanation could be that he was aware of this fact, but misunderstood it as "More likely" rather than "Actually able to", and since he didn't care if people died he continued to shoot people who couldn't actually become stand users.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby jda95 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:57 pm

Kyojo777 wrote:Koichi


:jolyne2

But yeah, to me this can be explained easily enough by Keicho not having an understanding of the arrow's natural properties. He may have followed the arrow's instincts without knowing it, he may have ignored who it was attracted to when he didn't think they would have the strength to kill his father.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kyojo777 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:21 pm

jda95 wrote:
Kyojo777 wrote:Koichi


:jolyne2

But yeah, to me this can be explained easily enough by Keicho not having an understanding of the arrow's natural properties. He may have followed the arrow's instincts without knowing it, he may have ignored who it was attracted to when he didn't think they would have the strength to kill his father.


Lol. Give me some slack, their names are really similar. Switch the 'o' with an e and the 'i' with an 'o' and you get Keicho.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby blind51de » Sun May 01, 2016 12:30 am

Sorry, I don't see the contradiction.
The arrow might gravitate to a potential Stand User if used sparingly. But if whoever's using just shoots people without distinction then yeah, you're going to get a lot of people who are killed by their own Stand like Holy nearly was.

As for Black Sabbath, the lighter test is probably meant to fail no matter what (despite Giorno's pratfalls). And if it doesn't, you'll at least have a powerless errand boy like Leaky Eye Luka.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kyojo777 » Sun May 01, 2016 7:49 pm

blind51de wrote:Sorry, I don't see the contradiction.
The arrow might gravitate to a potential Stand User if used sparingly. But if whoever's using just shoots people without distinction then yeah, you're going to get a lot of people who are killed by their own Stand like Holy nearly was.

As for Black Sabbath, the lighter test is probably meant to fail no matter what (despite Giorno's pratfalls). And if it doesn't, you'll at least have a powerless errand boy like Leaky Eye Luka.


Or people who couldn't develop a stand at all.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kira Kira » Mon May 02, 2016 12:36 am

I guess what I thought was that the Arrow was literally like a magnet and, as such, shouldn't have struck anyone who couldn't become a Stand user, because it would've just swerved out of the way or something.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Nabu-san » Mon May 02, 2016 1:23 am

The real question is, why would he think he could convince a Stand user to do his errand?
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kyojo777 » Mon May 02, 2016 1:27 am

Nabu-san wrote:The real question is, why would he think he could convince a Stand user to do his errand?


...That is a good question.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby jda95 » Mon May 02, 2016 7:14 am

I think ultimately it's similar to the whole "stand users attract other stand users" thing. Less of a literal magnetism and more of a subtle force that leads to a certain outcome.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kira Kira » Mon May 02, 2016 10:08 pm

jda95 wrote:I think ultimately it's similar to the whole "stand users attract other stand users" thing. Less of a literal magnetism and more of a subtle force that leads to a certain outcome.


Yeah, that does sound about right.

Nabu-san wrote:The real question is, why would he think he could convince a Stand user to do his errand?


Gratitude for granting them a Stand in the first place? Angelo mentions he would've been willing to go along with whatever Keicho was doing, provided it was fun. Considering he gets his kicks off murdering people, I doubt it'd be hard to persuade someone like Angelo to kill one person. (I guess that could be another reason Keicho chose to shoot malevolent people, like Angelo and Hazamada, with the Arrow; they'd actually have the balls to kill an innocent human being.)

Alternatively, Keicho could just pay them, since Okuyasu mentions having enough savings to last him for five or six years (presumably the money the Nijimura brothers' father received from Dio), which is how he could continue to live in the rundown Nijimura house without a regular income.

A less likely theory would be that Keicho would bluff that he would take away their Stand power if they didn't do what he asked of them.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Nabu-san » Tue May 03, 2016 3:03 am

gratitude? lol. fat chance, Keicho picked assholes at best or hardened criminal at worst, and he's no dio.
Besides trying to kill a fat blob which regenerates endlessly doesn't seem anyone's idea of fun. it's still doing Keicho's errand.
The only plausible theory would be paying Stand users, but even then, evil Stand users won't just listen to two highschool teenagers.
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Re: The gravity of the Arrow

Postby Kira Kira » Wed May 04, 2016 4:23 am

Nabu-san wrote:The only plausible theory would be paying Stand users, but even then, evil Stand users won't just listen to two highschool teenagers.


Age is irrelevant (and, according to Angelo, Keicho seemed pretty old for a guy wearing a school uniform anyway) when money is involved.

Besides, let's face it: it was mostly just Araki's way of conveniently introducing Stand users to the plot. When you think about it, Keicho's plan was pretty stupid: give a bunch of random people special powers, and hope that one of them has an ability that can kill an immortal being and that he can persuade them to kill said being. It wasn't thought through very well, which is probably part of the reason Okuyasu said Keicho deserved to be killed by Red Hot Chili Pepper.
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